Comments on: the ignored cause of global warming and pollution http://athoughtadrift.com/grandad/2008/03/26/the-ignored-cause-of-global-warming-and-pollution/ The mind of a great-grandfather Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:01:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: gemmell http://athoughtadrift.com/grandad/2008/03/26/the-ignored-cause-of-global-warming-and-pollution/#comment-167 gemmell Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:50:48 +0000 http://athoughtadrift.com/grandad/2008/03/26/the-ignored-cause-of-global-warming-and-pollution/#comment-167 This issue is well and truly identified and addressed by many many sci-fi books. In Asimov's books the Earth is totally trashed, it's basically just one big storm, going outside one of the domes is just crazy. The place is so packed that people basically use travellators to get around, and going outside is madness. Interstellar travel, massive "Ark" style space ships which basically have their own little world, cities under the sea etc etc. I think that if you made it possible for people to stay at home and look after their kids, it would have the reverse effect of what you intend. I think if you made it accessible for people to not work and to stay home and rear their kids you'd see more people having kids and taking that option. Speculation of course, but it's certainly something I'd give plenty of thought to! I don't trust people. There are a lot of stupid idiots who are unable to think and who are totally selfish. One example is a Heroine addict, she's had 2 kids, one lives with the Grandparents, one lives with the brother. The chick is pregnant again. Everyone in the family is thinking "who the hells going to look after this one?". This issue is well and truly identified and addressed by many many sci-fi books. In Asimov’s books the Earth is totally trashed, it’s basically just one big storm, going outside one of the domes is just crazy. The place is so packed that people basically use travellators to get around, and going outside is madness. Interstellar travel, massive “Ark” style space ships which basically have their own little world, cities under the sea etc etc.

I think that if you made it possible for people to stay at home and look after their kids, it would have the reverse effect of what you intend. I think if you made it accessible for people to not work and to stay home and rear their kids you’d see more people having kids and taking that option. Speculation of course, but it’s certainly something I’d give plenty of thought to!

I don’t trust people. There are a lot of stupid idiots who are unable to think and who are totally selfish. One example is a Heroine addict, she’s had 2 kids, one lives with the Grandparents, one lives with the brother. The chick is pregnant again. Everyone in the family is thinking “who the hells going to look after this one?”.

]]> By: grandad http://athoughtadrift.com/grandad/2008/03/26/the-ignored-cause-of-global-warming-and-pollution/#comment-155 grandad Sun, 30 Mar 2008 09:45:39 +0000 http://athoughtadrift.com/grandad/2008/03/26/the-ignored-cause-of-global-warming-and-pollution/#comment-155 Simon, You miss the point, it's not a case of seeing how it can work it is more a case of having to find a solution to a problem. If you look at it as an equation where the generational adjustments to the population and its demands on the environment can not exceed the ability of the environment to sustain the requirements of the population, then an adjustment has to be made if it looks as though the two quantities are going to become out of equilibrium. I tried to put forward a solution that didn't require the killing of people either on an age basis or a space acquisition by force. It appeared to me that there was only 3 options 1) Do nothing and just wait till it is too late to do anything and we would all then just disappear from the face of the earth. However, the final outcome would probably be proceeded by a period of chaos. 2) Let the powers that be sort out the problem in the best way they know how. Based on past history, this would mean the various powers that have would try to expand to obtain access to the resources they need to maintain their standard of living. Not dissimilar to the expansion attempted by Japan back in the 1930's where they invaded China and subsequently other countries because they were, and still are, a resource short country. That is except for human resources! 3) Regulate the growth of the population to ensure that it doesn't exceed the ability of the environment to support it. This way was my preferred way of facing up to the problem. There are ways of controlling the population by birth control and one way was, as I suggested, to make it possible for families to have one parent as a home parent. This doesn't mean handing out money, I've never thought this was a solution to any problem. However, it is possible to make it easier for families to thrive by making available the services at a plausible rate. If we had accessible accommodation such as council homes as they did in years gone by that would relieve the housing problem. Then we should have a state education system available to all on an ability basis, again as we had back in the 40's up to the 60's. We should also have a health system which recognizes the needs of families. I agree with you that we should try to obtain parents that have the necessary parenting skills but how would you do this, would you give each prospective parent a test to determine their suitability? I think that it is better to let those people that feel that they really love children have them then try to make their endeavours as easy as possible. We must find a way of solving this problem without damaging the rearing of the next generation, it is our future. Simon,
You miss the point, it’s not a case of seeing how it can work it is more a case of having to find a solution to a problem.
If you look at it as an equation where the generational adjustments to the population and its demands on the environment can not exceed the ability of the environment to sustain the requirements of the population, then an adjustment has to be made if it looks as though the two quantities are going to become out of equilibrium.
I tried to put forward a solution that didn’t require the killing of people either on an age basis or a space acquisition by force.
It appeared to me that there was only 3 options
1) Do nothing and just wait till it is too late to do anything and we would all then just disappear from the face of the earth. However, the final outcome would probably be proceeded by a period of chaos.
2) Let the powers that be sort out the problem in the best way they know how. Based on past history, this would mean the various powers that have would try to expand to obtain access to the resources they need to maintain their standard of living. Not dissimilar to the expansion attempted by Japan back in the 1930’s where they invaded China and subsequently other countries because they were, and still are, a resource short country.
That is except for human resources!
3) Regulate the growth of the population to ensure that it doesn’t exceed the ability of the environment to support it. This way was my preferred way of facing up to the problem.
There are ways of controlling the population by birth control and one way was, as I suggested, to make it possible for families to have one parent as a home parent. This doesn’t mean handing out money, I’ve never thought this was a solution to any problem. However, it is possible to make it easier for families to thrive by making available the services at a plausible rate.
If we had accessible accommodation such as council homes as they did in years gone by that would relieve the housing problem. Then we should have a state education system available to all on an ability basis, again as we had back in the 40’s up to the 60’s. We should also have a health system which recognizes the needs of families.
I agree with you that we should try to obtain parents that have the necessary parenting skills but how would you do this, would you give each prospective parent a test to determine their suitability? I think that it is better to let those people that feel that they really love children have them then try to make their endeavours as easy as possible.
We must find a way of solving this problem without damaging the rearing of the next generation, it is our future.

]]> By: gemmell http://athoughtadrift.com/grandad/2008/03/26/the-ignored-cause-of-global-warming-and-pollution/#comment-153 gemmell Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:08:26 +0000 http://athoughtadrift.com/grandad/2008/03/26/the-ignored-cause-of-global-warming-and-pollution/#comment-153 Grandad, I can't see it working. I really can't, religion or no, how do you propose to regulate the population? Would you say "right, people over 65 are off to get shot?". Or would it be done via an application to the government to have a baby. I agree, good caring mothers (or fathers!) should be encouraged to stay home and give their children a decent upbringing without having to suffer concequences for doing so. But just saying that people can stay home and get benifits just for having children is the wrong way around. It'd encourage having many children and not getting a job. What you want is people who are knowledgeable about the growth of children, and can nourish them with information, skills and concepts. Not just someone who stays home all day and drinks beer. Also, we've evolved to want children, those that didn't have that drive died out, so I don't really think there are that many people who don't want kids. I agree that this is a problem, but I don't agree that it is religions fault, or that removal of religion will allow us to solve the problem, and I really don't see how anyone can fix it. Grandad,

I can’t see it working. I really can’t, religion or no, how do you propose to regulate the population? Would you say “right, people over 65 are off to get shot?”. Or would it be done via an application to the government to have a baby.

I agree, good caring mothers (or fathers!) should be encouraged to stay home and give their children a decent upbringing without having to suffer concequences for doing so. But just saying that people can stay home and get benifits just for having children is the wrong way around. It’d encourage having many children and not getting a job. What you want is people who are knowledgeable about the growth of children, and can nourish them with information, skills and concepts. Not just someone who stays home all day and drinks beer.

Also, we’ve evolved to want children, those that didn’t have that drive died out, so I don’t really think there are that many people who don’t want kids. I agree that this is a problem, but I don’t agree that it is religions fault, or that removal of religion will allow us to solve the problem, and I really don’t see how anyone can fix it.

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